On Theism and Deism

Another response to chillin’s questions on the Ask page.

Chillin asks, “What makes theism any more valid than deism?”

Deism contends that there is a “first creator” who brought about the existence of the universe and then left it spinning on it’s own accord.  This removes the personal intimacy that theism presents, stating that the God who created the universe also fellowships and participates in it.  So what makes the latter more valid than the former?  I’m not sure that this is a very valid question, because the perceived validity of worldviews is relative to the holder, but I will tell you why theism is more valid to me.  I held a deistic theology/worldview for a few years of my life because I had some “intimacy issues” with God.  Through unforeseen events in my life and the studying of the Bible, I began to see the evidence of a God who does not merely watch the universe go by, but who intervenes in a constant and personal way.  In a more generalized sense, I would say that both theism and atheism are more valid in respectability than deism.  Deism itself is a sort of cop out (similar to agnosticism).  It seems rather noncommital, identifying a god, but to lazy to attempt to know it.  This is not a complete answer, but if I presented why theism is most valid, you would surely respond by calling me closed minded.  Also, discussing why theism, and Christian theism in particular, is the most valid worldview would be a book more than a post.

The Morality of God

Another chillin question from the ask page.  I promise I’ll get caught up soon, everything is just a touch hectic lately.

Chillin: How did god decide what’s moral and what’s not?

I’ll try to keep it short and allow for most of the dialouge in the comment section.  When you look at God’s moral law (the ten commandments), the laws that are held within are based upon God’s character.  God is perfectly holy and unparalleled, thus worshipping a created being is not moral.  God gives life, and thus murder is man acting as God and taking life (I’ll rebut after you give me the typical “so why did God kill people in the Old Testament” spill.  Just put it in comment form).  God is pure truth, so lying is contrary to God’s character and thus immoral.  The idea of morality is based solely on God’s unchanging character and immorality are actions and heart conditions that are contrary to that character.

Sin in the Garden

So, the Ask page is booming, which makes me feel pretty important (even if it is almost completely filled by one person).  I’m going to try to get to all the questions posted within the next few days, but I wanted to start with the shortest.  Chillinatthecabstand posed this question…

If the Garden of Eden is essentially the same as heaven, why was the evil, tempting snake in it?

I’m not sure where you came across the idea that the Garden is essentially the same as heaven, but regardless that is not the case.  While God did spend time in the Garden before the fall, there is still a difference presented between the creation and heaven.  The garden was perfect, but it was far from heaven.  So Satan dwelling in the garden is not a shocking revelation.  Now, there are passages that show that Satan had access to heaven in the Old Testament, but he is subject to God there and unable to tempt or even speak out of turn.  Did this suffice? 

Is God Purposeless?

Another chillinatthecabstand question from the ask section.  (He asks it in a more detailed form on his blog)

If the point of humans is to worship God, what then is the point of God’s existence?

Response:  The question has a “could God make a rock He couldn’t lift” quality to it, but I defintely think that it is a good discussion to have.  Let me clear up some misconceptions in your post first.  God exists for Himself and in community with Himself.  You claimed in your post that God cannot talk to Jesus or the Holy Spirit because they are paradoxally the same being.  While this is true, we see God refer to Himself in plural pronouns and named in the the plural Elohim in Genesis and conversing within Himself.  Also, you claimed that God cannot be friends with His created beings, which is also not theologically and biblically accurate.  Moses was called a friend of God and that phrase is used several times throughout Scripture to define His followers.  The Bible is very clear that God created man in order to fellowship with them.

I noticed some comments on chillin’s post that appeared to claim that God just exists with no clear purpose.  This is definitely not true.  The purpose of God’s existence is existence.  Let me explain.  God exists so that everything else can exist.  His purpose is to create and give purpose.  He is the uncreated Creator and without Him nothing can come into being.  Our worship of God is required because He makes existence possible.  God also exists for fellowship and community with Himself and His creations.  God’s purpose is creation, receiving glory and fellowshipping with His creations.

Chillin:  Good thought about God’s existence being boring, but as you documented quite well, God is distinctly different in many ways from humanity and you are assuming that boredom would be in His character and make up.

Look forward to some response.

The Morality of Theists and Atheists

More from the Ask Page!  My buddy chillinatthecabstand posed this question

Can you name one moral action done by a theist which could not be done by an atheist?
Can you name one evil action done by a theist which could not be done by an atheist?*
*As in they would never do it because it’s silly, not because they are physically incapable of doing it.

Chillin:  First off, that’s three questions, so I charge double.  I would have to say that the answer is no.  Morality is a character trait that is found in all people (theist and nontheist) that is dominant is some and less so in others.  If one subscribes to theism, that does not remove the ability to act immorally and one who does not believe in God is not incapable of moral actions.  That is why you have Christians committing immoral actions and atheists being philanthropists and vice versa.  As a Christian, I hold that all men were created in the image of God and even though sin has marred that, the communicalbe trait of morality is still present in all people in some form.  Christians are not by nature any “more moral” on their own, merely that they have had their immoralities atoned for.  Followers of God are supposed to seek hard after living a right and moral life, but we still fall because we are still human, but this does not negate the atonement.  In the same way, just because a nontheist may act morally most of the time, there is still a sinful nature in need of atonement.  So all that said to say, no, there is not an immoral action that a theist cannot commit and there is not a moral action that a nontheist cannot commit.  I hope this answered the question at least somewhat sufficiently.  Look forward to all your responses!